Minister of Small Business Andrew Bayly has told Parliament he made an 'L' sign on his forehead and repeatedly called a worker a loser during a ministerial visit earlier this month.
Bayly on Friday released a written complaint against him levelled by a worker when he was on a business visit in Marlborough.
The complaint said Bayly had questioned why the worker was still working and told them to "take a bottle of wine and go home ... take some wine and f--- off", and later called them a "loser" in front of their boss, the minister's assistant, marketing staff and other employees - forming an L on his forehead with his fingers.
The embarrassing saga spilled into the House on Tuesday when the minister was questioned about his actions by Labour MP Arena Williams.
Asked if he had told the worker to "f--- off", he replied, "I do not believe I said that."
Williams then asked if he had called the worker a loser.
"Yes, I was wrong but I intended the comments in a light hearted manner, unfortunately it's caused hurt and offence, and for that reason I've apologised unreservedly to the individual."
Williams went on, asking "did he hold up the shape of an L on his forehead?" using her own hand to demonstrate.
"Again, yes I did, but again it was in the spirit of comments made in a light-hearted manner and that's why I've apologised unreservedly to the individual."
Asked what his version of events was, Bayly said he accepted the overall account of the complainant, but he did not believe he had sworn, and "certainly was not drunk" but regardless he said he was wrong.
Earlier, on his way into Question Time Bayly spoke to reporters, where he said his behaviour on the ministerial visit and the subsequent fallout was the lowlight of his parliamentary career "by a long way".
An MP of 10 years, Bayly said not everyone would have agreed with him at all times, but he was comfortable with his conduct outside of this recent example.
He did not think there were any other instances that would come to light.
"There was no intent - I'm not the type of person who walks around trying to say horrible things to people."
Bayly said he had no idea he had caused offence in the moment, and if he had then he would have apologised at the time.
Bayly has tried to make contact with the worker to apologise directly, but had not been able to get hold of him.
It was for the Prime Minister to determine if he had got off lightly, he said.
"The Prime Minister still has confidence in me. I'm very passionate about this portfolio. I love talking to people and going out and meeting businesses."
"I'm devastated about it - I don't want to be talking about this," he told reporters.
Parliament weighs in
National MPs are refusing to answer questions about Andrew Bayly's insulting of a worker, while Labour says the prime minister's response is "weak".
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon on Monday defended Bayly - saying that although the Commerce Minister's behaviour had fallen short of what was expected of a minister he had "unreservedly" and "genuinely" apologised.
"Importantly, I would expect going forward - and I've told him that very clearly, and he has given me reassurances - that there won't be this behaviour again," Luxon said.
Bayly, however, also questioned the complainant's account, saying while he had apologised for putting the worker in that situation he did not believe he had used the F word, but he did not want to "have a dispute around what he claims I've said".
"I don't believe I used that word, but the bigger issue I put him in a situation where he felt offended and for that I have apologised, I have apologised to him twice."
National MPs were reticent to speak about the matter when heading into their caucus meeting on Tuesday.
"Yes. And he's obviously apologised for that and that's something for him and the prime minister and other people involved directly ... I'm sure he's clearly very apologetic about that and that's appropriate."
He refused to comment on whether Luxon had done enough to deal with the situation.
Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell also had little to say about it.
"The prime minister has dealt with that and so I've got no further comment to make. I think that Andrew has apologised for his behaviour, he's apologised directly to the person that felt offended, that was the right thing to do."
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey was even more economical with his words.
"Andrew Bayly's apologised. Quite rightly. And I'll leave it at that ... he's clearly stated that the behaviour wasn't acceptable."
MP for Ōtaki Tim Costley was also surprised.
"You know, it's a massive surprise that he would do something that would cause offence to others ... I think it's out of character for anyone in our team to upset someone like that."
He said he could not remember the last time someone called him a loser, but agreed it was probably a high school kind of interaction. He could not remember having called anyone a loser himself, saying "it's just not what I do, it's not how I operate".
Labour calls for Bayly to lose portfolio
Labour's leader Chris Hipkins reiterated his view that Bayly should face some kind of demotion.
"This kind of behaviour clearly deserves some form of sanction, whether it's the removal of a portfolio or removal or portfolios altogether. I think simply saying to someone 'oh that wasn't very good' isn't a particularly strong signal," Hipkins said.
"I think there's still massive questions for [Luxon] about why he thinks it's okay for a minister in his government to call somebody a loser for working late, why he thinks it's okay for a minister in his government to swear at somebody because they're working late, and the only sanction really is that he says he didn't think they met his standards - well he isn't showing any evidence of that."
"Apologies always look a bit disingenuous if you then go on about how you don't agree with the facts as put forward by the person who's making the complaint."
MP Kieran McAnulty said Bayly's behaviour was "not really good enough", but would not criticise him for swearing.
"I'm not going to stand here and criticise someone for swearing, I'd be a hypocrite," he said.
"I think it was pretty clear from the reactions of the public that they're not impressed. It's probably not the, um, 'eff off' you know - we'd probably all see that as a joke. But the calling someone a loser and putting the 'L' to the forehead? That's pretty rough."
He said he did not think he had ever done that, "but can I say hand on heart that I haven't as a joke told someone to eff off? No. so I'm not going to criticise him for that. But I don't think I've ever called - certainly someone I wasn't mates with - a loser. Yeah, that's pretty full on".
MPs had been stood down for similar inappropriate behaviour, he said.
"They weren't ministers, they were held to a higher account.
Ayesha Verrall said Bayly's behaviour was "totally inappropriate conduct" and Bayly should be demoted.
"I particularly feel for that worker feeling like a person of authority was at their work site and humiliated them, called them a loser, that's not appropriate.
"I agree he should be demoted, you shouldn't be able to behave like this and not face any consequences. We all know if the boot was on the other foot and the worker was having a go at the minister like that, there would be consequences."
Willie Jackson seemed unsurprised, however.
"It's sort of par for the course from National Party people, it seems like 'born to rule' attitude," he said. "I'm really disappointed with him, no worker deserves to be treated like that, no New Zealanders deserve to be treated like that and I hope the prime minister looks at it again. I think it's disgraceful behaviour.
"He must have totally misjudged the situation but no no no, he should be stripped fo that portfolio ... the prime minister has to act."
Ingrid Leary said it was unacceptable, particularly from a minister, and Luxon's response was "weak".
"Weak leadership. Not the same level that he was expecting of us when we were in government. So he's applying a double standard.
"I think there's more to come from this story, I think there's more questions than answers," she said. "Obviously there are two different accounts so we need to get to the bottom of which account is accurate. And also there would've been people who saw what happened.
Ingrid Leary says the prime minister's response to Bayly's behaviour is weak. Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
"Getting to the bottom of what happened is really important. If his account is not true then there are huge questions about his sustainability as minister."
Helen White said she hated it when people used words like "loser".
"I hate it. I think it's very disrespectful ... because we are all actually one people - gosh this government goes on about that a bit - and yet to treat people as if they are less is just wrong. It's absolutely wrong to do that.
"I have seen the most wonderful people out there who aren't earning very much and they are not losers, they are often heroes, I think we just need to remember our supermarket workers in Covid to remember that you don't have to be earning a lot of money to be doing good in this country. Our nurses, are they losers?
"I like Andrew Bayly, I get on well with him, I hope he learns from this that words like that - if that's what was said - they're just totally inappropriate, there's nothing light-hearted about that.
"He was a fund manager, he earned a lot of money, he's done well in business, he should be humble enough to realise that other people are doing good in our communities and don't necessarily earn the winnings that he got - doesn't make them losers."
"It's a tough job being in politics and I don't like to kick people when they're down, but that's something I feel strongly about because I've seen it before in my job, I've seen that kind of 'us and them' kind of mentality and it's just not acceptable ... I've had really good interactions with Andrew, so it's nothing personal, I just don't think people should be talked about that way in our country."
Luxon 'comfortable' with Bayly approach
Luxon, however, was not backing down on his approach.
"I'm comfortable with where we've got to. I'm not excusing his behaviour at all, it didn't meet my expectations whatsoever, he's very clear about [that]."
He rejected suggestions Bayly was disputing the facts of the matter.
"In my conversation with him on Friday I went through the transcript that we received on Thursday evening with him, he didn't really dispute much, he may have argued some of the tone but it didn't really matter, frankly, and he also acknowledged that. He wasn't defending it with me at all ... it does matter but the way that you're presenting it is not how it was presented to me in my conversation with him," he said.
"There was no debate that he had caused hurt and insult and we went throughout he transcript, and he said 'yes, I could argue the tone but I take full responsibility for it'."
Luxon confirmed he had not personally contacted the business or the complainant, but his office had.
"They've made multiple outreaches... my office has reached out to the complainant ... Andrew Bayly wrote a subsequent letter to the individual concerned, asking, saying, 'I'm very happy to meet in person, I'm very happy to discuss further on the phone'."
He said it was up to the complainant to decide whether they wanted to meet with Bayly.
Questions had also been raised about how the complaint - which had been emailed to all Parliamentary parties, but was marked as spam - had disappeared from MPs' inboxes.
Luxon suggested those questions were "conspiratorial" from Labour.
Hipkins rejected that.
"I mean, we just outlined the facts because we were being asked by media why we haven't shared what we knew, and the reason that we didn't share it was because we couldn't find it."
He said the redactions made when the government published the complaint were appropriate to protect the privacy of the workers.
