Rated as one of New Zealand's greatest All Black wings and appointed an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit for his services to mental health awareness, John Kirwan now divides his time between coaching Japan's national rugby team and family life in Italy, all the while maintaining a keen interest in New Zealand.
Waiting for the operator to connect me with Kirwan's cellphone, I was not sure he actually wanted this conversation.
He was preparing Japan for the second of two tests against the American Eagles and this was my fifth attempt to make contact in three days.
But suddenly my ear-piece filled with a "Hello", accented with the distinctive, bassy tones we heard so often during his 96-game All Black career and have been reacquainted with through his candid talks about his own mental health.
Introductions made, I asked how the test series with the United States was going and what the future held for Japan rugby.
"We've won the first match, which is fantastic," he replied.
"Things are very positive. We've got a great competition, a wealthy league and a team that is performing well."
Japan narrowly lost out to New Zealand in its bid to host the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
Winning the rights to the World Cup in 2015 was important to rugby, not just in Japan, but in Asia generally and to the future of the game itself, he said.
Rugby already has a toehold in Japan and hosting the cup would further boost the sport's profile there and act as a gateway to the rest of Asia, which was home to 60% of the world's population.
"The decision will be made next May," he added"I think New Zealand should be associating themselves with us in this [bid].
"The future for us as New Zealanders is with Asia."
I wanted to know what he thought of the Bledisloe Cup match in Hong Kong.
It had seemed a bit tedious and I was not sure it would have done much to win new Asian fans.
But Kirwan said it had been well received.
In fact, a Wallabies versus All Blacks test in Japan was not out of the question.
"We're considering holding a Bledisloe Cup match here at some point. As long as we get something out of it, both financially and in terms of profile."
Although Kirwan was in Japan for a month this time because of the test matches, his normal work pattern was 10 days in Japan, followed by as many days in Italy with his wife Fiorella and their three children, Francesca (14), Niko (13) and Luca (9).
Kirwan enjoys Japan because "it's safe, they have a culture of respect and I've got a great job".
"I've got a great life," he said.
"I need to be very careful about the effect it has on my children, but at present the positives are outweighing the negatives."
From the background noise siphoned through his cellphone, I guess Kirwan is now walking down a bustling Tokyo street.
Perhaps it is because he lives in two countries where rugby does not reign supreme that he thinks a lot about the shape and future of the sport.
Getting rugby sevens accepted as an Olympic sport would do much for the game because most governments would then free up funding, which would mean better facilities and, so, more players, he said.
"We are lobbying for it to be included.
"But we don't want sevens to take over from the 15-player game," he added.
In his 1992 biography, Running on Instinct, Kirwan was, in most respects, looking forward to a fully professional future for rugby.
On reflection, has professionalism been a good move? I asked.
"It's been fantastic for the game, but rugby has broken into two parts," he said.
"The professional side brings the money in but the amateur side has the players."
The amateur wing of rugby needed protecting, he said with conviction.
Rugby should return to the tribalism, the provincialism that engenders public pride and support.
"I think that means the NPC or something like it; a New Zealand eight-team competition like league's NRL."
The next layer up should be an Asia Pacific Cup which, like Europe's Heineken Cup, would be a prize fought for by the leading provincial teams of countries in the region.
Perhaps too much rugby is being played, I suggested.
Not at all, but changes were needed to ensure it attracted more spectators, he said.
To that end, Kirwan supports the experimental law variations (elvs) trialled last season to create a more free-flowing, faster and exciting style of play which is more easily understood by players and spectators.
"We need to understand we are competing for entertainment dollars.
"Right now, rugby has 0.8% of the global sporting market. If we could lift that to just 1.5% or 2% it would be great for the sport.
"To do that, we need to get people watching who don't understand rugby."
Speaking of understanding, I wanted to know who had told Kirwan to harden up when he had confided in someone about his anxiety and depression.
Despair had gripped him suddenly in a hotel in London early in 1989.
The self-doubt returned a week later in Italy and then disappeared until he boarded a plane a few months later bound for Auckland.
That airborne panic attack was followed by more back in New Zealand.
The mix of good and bad days during the ensuing two years stripped Kirwan of his self-confidence and self-belief.
At times, he thought he was going to have to be incarcerated.
His greatest fear was that he would never be well again.
In those television advertisements you say someone's unhelpful response was "harden up".
My wife is Zinzan Brooke's cousin and she reckons that sounds like him.
Was it Zinny who said that? I asked.
"A few All Black mates have tried to claim that one," he replied.
"Some of the guys who appeared the toughest were the most understanding."
What a diplomat, I thought.
"Reaching out for help was a turning point," Kirwan added.
"Once I accepted it, that was the day I started getting better. It's important not to give in, but to accept it so you can understand it and work with it."
Mental health experts say Kirwan's openness about his mental health struggles has directly contributed to a greater awareness of depression in New Zealand, breaking down stereotypes about the condition, particularly among men.
Why do you think those advertisements have had such an impact? I asked.
"It's a modern disease," he answered.
"Life is tough for many people. There are lots of pressures. So the timing was right.
"I think it appealed to men because they thought, if he can talk about it then anyone can."
But there is still more work to do, so he is pleased to be continuing his involvement with the Ministry of Health-funded campaignWe have not seen the last of him, he hinted.
Three things just to finish off, I saidRight now, what are you outraged about? What is impressing you? And what are you excited by?"Outraged? The structure of rugby worldwide.
I'd like things to change there.
But that's another story," he said.
"I'm impressed by Obama. I hope that as president [of the United States] he can carry through on what he has promised.
"And I'm excited by life, every day."
