It’s an adage that has stood Scott Mason in good stead throughout both his career in accounting and in governance, and continues to be at the front of his mind.
Now primarily a professional director, the Dunedin accountant admitted he was very choosy about who he worked with. Loyalty and integrity were the two most important factors.
And his philosophy was generally fairly simple. If you looked people in the eye, took them "on a journey" and treated them with respect — "generally speaking, they will come with you".
"It’s about enjoying what you’re doing and enjoying the people you’re doing it with."
The Institute of Directors recently presented Mr Mason with Chartered Fellow status, the highest level on the chartered pathway.
Otago-Southland branch chairwoman Trish Oakley said Mr Mason’s willingness to expand his knowledge across a range of sector industry boards, including his interest in supporting, educating and inspiring future leaders, illustrated his long-term vision and commitment to great governance.
A practising chartered accountant for more than 30 years, specialising in advising medium-large businesses and high-net-worth individuals, Mr Mason has been building his governance career over the past decade.
He still spends a day a week working at Findex — the tax consultancy practice at the firm has grown over time, from just him to 15 — and he chairs the Chartered Accountants Tax Advisory Group, which advises the Government on tax policy.
Like many others, Mr Mason’s governance journey started in sports clubs: squash, in particular, in Invercargill and then Dunedin.
He became involved with the Otago Squash Club when he moved to Dunedin in 1998, looking for career opportunities.
Through his day job, he was asked to take over from the retiring treasurer at the Fortune Theatre, where he remained for 10 years.
He was not still involved when it closed in 2018.
The biggest issue was the national funding model was population-based and he believed it also became "too much about the building" and it should have been more about the collation of skills, knowledge and experience involved.
"Once you disband that, you never get it back. To me, that was the great shame of the theatre closing," he said.
Then there was the Montecillo Veterans Home and Hospital, where he was initially engaged to assist with the devolution of assets from the Government into a local trust, and then to manage the process at other facilities throughout the country.
Chairwoman at the time Dame Dorothy Fraser was, for someone getting involved in governance, "just an inspiration".
Around the same time, Mr Mason’s daughter started school and he spent 11 years on boards of trustees: Mornington School and St Hilda’s Collegiate School.
One of the greatest frustrations in that environment was the things the board could and couldn’t do and what decisions it was "allowed to make".
Boards also had to deal with some challenging community issues. In his case, it was a conversation around bringing in a school uniform at Mornington — "an amazing experience".
It was an emotive issue that was so personal to people and, as chairman, he received calls and messages of abuse.
Then came commercial governance roles; mostly in tech, some startups were successful, some ultimately not, but he learned good lessons both ways.
He learned that managing the emotional state of startup founders was key and the founder relationship with the board was critical.
Understanding business was undeniably about dollars and cents but, without people in the business, there was no business.
"I learnt you had to be their critical friend. You never bulls..., you have to hold them to account and challenge, but also in a supportive way," he said.
One of the best examples was Education Perfect co-founder Craig Smith, whom he worked with for 10 years.
"I learned having someone willing to listen and consider your advice was critical. We didn’t always have to agree. Often our deciding point was different to his and my starting point.
"If you can’t have that conversation, I think things are destined to fail. You’ve got to have your big boy pants on and have real conversations — and do it with respect."
Mr Mason has always had an interest in tech and had a crack at his own education startup, with partners, in the early 2000s.
It failed; the business idea was right, the execution was good but their timing was wrong. The market could not get its head around the use of technology in the way they saw it being used. What they were trying to do later became the norm.
Asked whether he would ever have another crack at a startup, Mr Mason said it got harder to be the absolute creator of an idea as you got older.
"In many ways, I think my skill set is harnessing and supporting and guiding the generator of the idea. I bring to the table all the scars on the back and really enjoy their successes.
"Looking back, it’s the impact you’ve had on others that is most important."
There were interns on three of the boards that he was on; that was about giving something back and providing opportunities to aspiring governors.
His proudest achievement was the career trajectory of his own Findex team; they helped him achieve what he wanted to achieve and, ultimately — "you’ve got to make sure you pay it back".
"Seeing others, helping them achieve their dreams, spins my wheels," he said.
Current directorships include Dunedin City Council-owned City Forests, Nomos One (leasing software as a service [SaaS]), Southern Motor Group, Banqer (children’s financial literacy), GetHomeSafe (lone worker health and safety SaaS), and Bison Group (container weighing/lifting).
It was a diverse portfolio and every business and industry had its idiosyncrasies and peculiarities, he said.
At City Forests, he loved the inter-generational aspect of forestry and the ability to spend time as a custodian of an asset that some "very smart forefathers" created to extract value for the current generation and to ensure it was there for future generations.
It was a a marvellous community asset, in terms of utility, and it was also very complex.
"Who would have thought growing trees and chopping them down was complex?"
Bison Group would be "another 10-year overnight success story", he said.
The hard tech company was growing and the nature of its transactions were evolving.
The biggest challenge was educating people on what it did, and "trying to educate the world" took time, but it had a customer list that many companies would kill for.
Like every industry, Southern Motor Group went through cyclical challenges. Durable goods was a tough place to be at the moment.
But the business had been there a long time and continued to evolve. And it was a cool time to be involved in an industry facing challenges — not just around the economic cycle but also the business model; how to to respond to the likes of Tesla’s direct-to-consumer model.
GetHomeSafe completed a capital raise this week and Mr Mason was very bullish about its prospects, believing it could be "an Education Perfect" — the Dunedin success story which, in 2021, saw American private equity firm Kohlberg Kravis Roberts take majority ownership alongside Australian private equity firm Five V Capital in a deal which valued the online learning firm at about $435million.
Banqer had also just completed a capital raise and his interest in that company was in its founders, Kendall Flutey and Simon Brown.
"I just want them to be successful, not just in terms of achieving their social mission which is important [financial literacy] but for them, to make sure they are successful." he said.
Property management software company Nomos One brought different challenges. Mr Mason got involved in mid 2019 and knew it was in trouble — he just did not realise how much.
It was a good example of how quickly governance could evolve into hands-on management, as the company had to be significantly reshaped.
The product was taken off the market and rebuilt while relationships with customers were maintained. It was now back in the market and on a "positive pathway".
During the "massive uncertainty" during Covid, the businesses he was involved with all went to pains to keep talking to their people.
One of the challenges in governance was that, while those governing needed to "be in the helicopter", it was also important to ensure people at the end of the chain were factored into all decisions.
"If you’re going through good times or bad times, it’s their efforts that will get you to where you’re going," he said.
Governors might have their hand "on the tiller" — "[but] if you don’t have those people rowing the boat, it doesn’t go forward".
During the pandemic, it was time for him to "step up and do the hard work" — often more as a counsellor than technical support, he said.
And, with his tax hat on, he was also helping design support payments and working through the practical consequences.
Covid was a "horrible moment in time" but, from that perspective, he believed "we got it so right".
New Zealand was unique in that the public and private sector got together regularly and talked about things, face-to-face, for the good of New Zealand. "It’s a public-good thing, for the good of the tax system."
Mr Mason is on the Otago-Southland branch committee of the Institute of Directors of the 305 Chartered Fellows in New Zealand; 45 are in Otago-Southland.
The region had a history of quiet achievers; people who just knuckled down and did the hard mahi over a long time to build a tremendous amount of value across the community, he said.
The recognition was like external acknowledgement that he was "on a journey".
"I hate to think anyone saw it as an end point. If you’re not growing, get off the travelator. I really enjoy the environment I operate in."
And that enjoyment largely came from smaller entities where the human dynamic was more important, he believed. That was the reason he had built his tax practice in that environment.
"My reward is looking people in the eye and knowing I made a difference to their life," he said.
Mr Mason recognised he was probably best in a crisis — "I’m probably built more to the general than the administrator" — and he liked growth and stimulation. He also loved learning.
Insight could be taken from every entity he had been involved with; the skills of a good governor were transferable.
The Institute of Directors was endeavouring to raise awareness of "involving others" in businesses — something which could be hard to do in many of the closely held entities — and explain how they could be much more successful doing that.
"It’s really hard to do that when you’re everything in the business, when you’re [both] Ma and Pa, [who] work in the business all day, and talking about the business all night. It’s just the power of other insights and also the power of forcing you to take a step back and think."
Having someone look at things in a different light was "massively valuable" and, when looking at things from a strategic perspective, with accountability — "stuff actually gets done".
He likened it to going to the gym.
If you engaged a personal trainer, who then set a programme, then that held you accountable, he said.
Mr Mason was also on the board of Startup Dunedin and he was still trying to get angel investment in the city going.
That was important if the city was to grow, he said.
Those building a business in Dunedin had a big advantage — "you understand you need to go to the world because the world won’t come to us".
That was particularly an advantage for tech companies who might be headquartered in the city, but it was never that market which was their goal. That influenced both the design of product and the design of business.
The likes of ADInstruments, Oritain and Education Perfect all knew that it "wasn’t about Dunedin" as they grew their global wings.
Throw in a stable workforce and people who were "vested in your success" and it was a great place to build a business. It was also a great place to live, he said.
